Sinnott vs. Eaglesham? Not really. But here’s a great dual interview with artists who left indelible marks on Marvel Comics.
INTERVIEW: JOE SINNOTT
One of my greatest experiences as a comic industry journalist has been the opportunity to meet amazing creators who are the backbone of the business and the reason we have a medium to admire. Such was the case in 2009 when I met Marvel artist Joe Sinnott at Comic Fusion’s annual superhero themed fundraiser for their local domestic abuse organization. Joe and his talented son Mark trekked down from the hills of New York several hours to join us in New Jersey where Joe proceeded to sketch for many hours. Joe has won several awards for his work as an inker and The Inkwell Awards have also named their Hall of Fame award after him.
It was a challenge limiting my questions when someone as tenacious and talented as Joe has been working in comics since the 1950s. From penciling to inking to completely finished colors, there are few artists today that offer the complete package of talent that Joe has shared with fans for a lifetime. Recalling my experience meeting Joe while wearing my Fantastic Four Sue Storm-Richards persona gave me the idea to ask one of the recent F4 artists some of the same questions to see how they measure up against each other. Dale Eaglesham’s style is so reminiscent of Joe, Jack Kirby and John Buscema that I couldn’t help but love Dale’s time on the F4 series.
AMBER: I understand you and a few of the other artists live near each other in upstate NY. Were you ever a “big city” man working out of the Marvel offices?
JOE: I never worked out of the Marvel office. I lived in the city for about 3 years at the start of my career and worked out of my apartment in NYC.
AMBER:When characters you’ve become attached to get changed for the purpose of making a movie franchise, do you feel possessive of the characters or can you separate the comic books and accept the movies as their own creations?
JOE: I am often disturbed about how the characters I’ve been used to working on are changed at the whim of Hollywood producers and directors. A case in point would be in the first Fantastic Four movie. Reed was too young, too thin and not enough gray in his temples. Sue was too Spanish looking and Johnny, while a great character should have had blond hair and longer, not a crew cut. The Thing was great but too short. In the Daredevil movie, Daredevil was much too dark - not red enough!
AMBER: I know you’re a big fan of westerns and I just saw that there’s a new Rawhide Kid miniseries on the shelves today. With the poor ticket sales of DC’s Jonah Hex movie, would you want to see Marvel Films try to create a blockbuster movie out of Rawhide Kid?
JOE: I don’t think the Rawhide Kid would succeed either - westerns are kaput! Arrowhead, my character from the 1950s, was a successful moviesstarring Burt Lancaster. Kids today just aren’t into westerns.
AMBER: What is it about westerns that appeals to you?
JOE: I love the gritty look of westerns. The dust, the rocks, especially Monument Valley and that particular time in history: 1850 - 1890, a very glamorous period.
AMBER: In spaghetti westerns women’s roles were usually limited to saloon prostitutes. If you were challenged with creating a western comic book centered around a female character, who would she be? What would she be like? What would she look like?
JOE: She would look like Claire Trevor (Stage Coach), the best of all the western “bad” girls - a heart of gold as they say, and a great actress. Linda Darnell (born on my birthday, by the way) was great in My darling Clementine!
AMBER: At the conventions, your line is always like something at Disneyland. Are there any general bits of advice you would give to fans when approaching a creator?
JOE: Yes, try to know a little about the artist you are approaching, his work record, his likes and dislikes, and don’t give him 50 - 100 books to sign - others are waiting.
AMBER: We’ve all seen it happen: a bad job on inking ruins beautiful pencil work; overly saturated colors that turn a solid, high-quality inking job into a mess. What’s the secret to a great pencilller/inker/colorist team?
JOE: The secret is that they ALL must be great artists in their own right.
AMBER: From an inker point of view, how have you handled it when you haven’t liked the coloring on your work?
JOE: I always feel like they are doing their best when coloring, even though I may not agree with some of their choices of color. Their’s nothing worse than seeing your intricate drawings of uniforms, space scenes etc. being covered up by purple or dark brown.
AMBER: I’ve seen some original pages from the Fantastic Four with your signature on them at the Toonseum in Pittsburgh and at the Montclair Art Museum in New Jersey. Should there be more places that showcase comic book art or is the internet eliminating any need for museums?
JOE: Yes, the more museums the better - although the internet is good, there’s certainly nothing like seeing the original art first hand.
AMBER: This year’s, Wonder Woman made headlines because of her redesign by Jim Lee where he gave her black pants instead of her classic star-spangled leotard. You’ve spent decades illustrating some powerful female characters in comics like Susan Storm (who has had her share of costume changes) and Crystal and they traditionally have a covered, but still skin-tight look. What challenges do creators face when trying to make a feminine character with powerful characters?JOE: First of all, make sure they really look feminine and attractive, like you, Beth, in your many costumes - female characters for the most part are easy to draw.
AMBER: If you couldn’t work in comics, what do you think you’d be doing?
JOE: I really think I could have been fairly successful as a talk show host, or a tourist guide in Monument Valley.
INTERVIEW: DALE EAGLESHAM
AMBER: You definitely have a classic quality to your style akin to Jack Kirby and Alan Davis. Is your style something you chose by means of inspiration or is it more straightforward about how you personally visualize the characters?DALE: It always depends on the book. On “JSoA,” my inspiration was mainly the Golden Age of comics, and soon the great characters and interactions also inspired me to inject a Rockwell vibe to the art where appropriate. With “FF,” a book I’d loved since childhood, I felt I wanted to give a nod to Kirby and the Silver Age of comics. Apparently someone in a review called my art the “evolutionary Kirby,” and that’s the greatest compliment! Jack’s skill and imagination and Joe (Sinnott)’s dynamic and precise line-weight helped shape how my art developed. As for “Steve Rogers: Super Soldier,” I’m having fun exploring the film noir style. However, what I’m doing with this book isn’t so much about a specific style as much as an approach to storytelling that reflects some of the techniques Hitchcock used to build tension and suspense in his films. It often has to do with the angle you choose (to imply a watcher), conspicuous background characters or dark corners in the backgrounds. In general, the “treatment” I give whatever project I am working on is partly chosen and partly dictated to me by the material.
AMBER: We’ve all seen it happen: a bad job on inking ruins beautiful pencil work; overly saturated colors that turn a solid, high-quality inking job into a mess. What’s the secret to a great penciller/inker/colorist team?
DALE: Other than plain ol’ skill, the main thing is to communicate and have a shared vision. A book should keep improving at every stage of its creation. You start with a script, hopefully a great one to begin with. Then the artist comes in and adds to it in myriad little ways, bringing the words to life. Then the pages go to the inker, where line-weight, texture and the impact of the black content in the panels are enhanced and the art improves as a result. That won’t happen if the artist and inker don’t have the same priorities, intent and vision. The inker needs to have a fundamental understanding of the intended style and content of the art, although sometimes, pencilers and inkers with apparently diverging philosophies can complement each other. And then when it gets to the colorist, it’s the same thing: the art should be improved even further in that process. Getting that perfect harmony is a rare and elusive thing, however. Lucky are those – like Kirby and Sinnott – who find it!
AMBER: This week, Wonder Woman made headlines because of her redesign by Jim Lee where he gave her black pants instead of her classic star-spangled leotard. You’ve spent decades illustrating some powerful female characters in comics like Susan Storm (who has had her share of costume changes) who traditionally has a covered, but still skin-tight look. What challenges do creators face when trying to make a feminine character with powerful characters?
DALE: I run into trouble with this with the fans all the time! I have definite tendency to make superheroines look stronger than other artists. Take Power Girl, for example. To me, she’s as strong as Superman and she should look it. Some thought I made her too muscular in JSoA, but I feel I still retained her femininity and even injected some vulnerability there. I also wanted to take Ma Hunkel out of her apron and give her a stronger, more capable look, and boy did fans react to that. So I think that although we’re making progress, it’s still a very male-centered, traditional genre. As for Sue Storm, I’ve often said I felt she was the backbone of the FF team, skin-tight outfit or not. Reed is the leader, but Sue is the stable emotional and moral center of the team and that makes her the strongest member in my view. To convey that, I relied mainly on body language and expression, although I did give her a very toned and fit (but still very feminine) body. Given that the costumes worn by many female superheroes are blatant T&A designs, bringing dignity, poise and grace when you need it can be really challenging.
AMBER: In the Fantastic Four’s Prime Elements story arc leading up to the War of the Four Cities, readers met some amazing anthropomorphic characters from under the ocean, other planets, etc. My favorites are the underworld characters. What was your process in creating different the look of the different species?
* - You did a great fundraiser this year for an animal refuge and you seemed quite at ease with them. Did any of them help inspire you with the unusual species from F4?
DALE: First, the basic look (horse, fish, etc.) of the characters was included in the script, so that was my starting point. Then there’s the fact that some of the characters were Inhumans, so that dictated some more of their look. Where my own life experiences and my involvement with the Refuge (Refuge RR for Horses) came into play is in the life I injected into the characters. Anyone with pets knows how much personality they have. My cats came in very handy in my JSoA days when I had to draw Tommy (Wildcat Jr.). They really do have facial expressions. And touring the Refuge, which cares for about 400 rescued animals, is not only inspiring on an emotional level – it’s also an inspiration when it comes to seeing (and later portraying) how non-humans express character. The creature whose mouth Mole Man made his appearance from is an obvious fantasy creation. It was loosely based on the monster designed by Kirby but I felt that this deep, subterranean dweller wouldn’t have any need for eyes where there is no light and that the absence of them would make it seem even more alien and terrifying. Overall, it is a careful balancing act when creating anthropomorphic characters. Too much of either side of the human/animal equation and it will look silly and siphon off any dramatic impact the material may have had. Portraying the Kymelians was an especial challenge in this regard.
AMBER: Speaking about that run in Fantastic Four, the colors by Paul Mounts jumped out showing how beautiful comics can be. We seemed to be in an era where dark and brooding emo stories take the spotlight. Do you have a preference?
DALE: Generally speaking, my favorite coloring is subdued, pastel-y earth tones with a watercolor feel. I’m not a fan of overly saturated colors, as I like the pencil lines to show through. I’ve been spoiled: Paul did an amazing job on the “FF” colors, as is Andy Troy now on “Super Soldier!” As for dark vs. bright, it all depends on the type of book. Traditional superhero books work well with bright colors, whereas modern, edgier books call for a grittier, darker look. One of my peeves is that the modern propensity for dark, intense color has all but chased the use of white off of the pages. Except for the white in word balloons, every pixel seems to be “treated” or colored in modern comics. I always love seeing white used whether in backgrounds or as a sculpting highlight.
AMBER: From a business perspective as an artist, is there a big difference between being a cover artist and an interior artist?DALE: Although I’ve done lots of covers for my books, I’ve never been exclusively a cover artist, so I can’t really go in depth here. A cover artist needs to have a stronger sense of style and composition because he is dealing with an instance of high drama from the story, whereas an interior artist has to first and foremost be a storyteller. Being a cover artist tends to give you a high profile in the industry as the covers are what all books are usually promoted with. Fans will see the cover art much sooner than the interiors and in many cases, the cover artist is all they will ever see unless they pick up the book. As a cover guy, you get to portray the emotional highs of the book, get incredibly high visibility for your work and deal with a very wide array of subjects. Personally, I enjoy going beyond that surface event and developing the characters through scenes and interactions.
